Football thread

[Daniela]

[gulzhan]

I know what you should be cheering for, Daniela! For a great match!

Let at least the final be GREAT!

Vamos, both France and Italy! Make a great game! After all, we won't see the World Cup for a long four years!

[Sheva]

FORZA ITALIA!!!!!!!!!

[Daniela]

Match Preview:

TEAMS:

Italy:

1 Gianluigi Buffon
19 Gianluca Zambrotta
23 Marco Materazzi
5 Fabio Cannavaro
3 Fabio Grosso
16 Mauro Camoranesi
8 Gennaro Gattuso
21 Andrea Pirlo
20 Simone Perrotta
10 Francesco Totti
9 Luca Toni

coach: Marcello Lippi

Substitutes:Angelo Peruzzi, Marco Amelia, Massimo Oddo, Alessandro Nesta, Cristian Zaccardo, Andrea Barzagli, Simone Barone, Daniele De Rossi, Alessandro Del Piero, Filippo Inzaghi, Alberto Gilardino, Vincenzo Iaquinta.

France:

16 Fabien Barthez
19 Willy Sagnol
15 Lilian Thuram
5 William Gallas
3 Eric Abidal
4 Patrick Vieira
6 Claude Makelele
22 Franck Ribéry
7 Florent Malouda
10 Zinedine Zidane
12 Thierry Henry

coach: Raymond Domenech

Substitutes: Grégory Coupet, Mickael Landreau, Jean-Alain Boumsong, Pascal Chimbonda, Gael Givet, Mickael Silvestre, Vikash Dhorasoo, Alou Diarra, David Trezeguet, Louis Saha, Sylvain Wiltord, Sidney Govou

STADIUM:

Olympiastadion, Berlin
Capacity: 72.000

REFEREE:

ELIZONDO Horacio (ARG)

I never insulted this guy, well, maybe a little... but hey! it's football, people always insult referees in the stadium

[gulzhan]

How could the refery expulse Zidane!!! Even if he was wrong!
How could Zidane loose his temper 8 minutes before the last match of his football career was over!!!
How could Materazzi provocate Zidane for an outburst (and what he said hi, I wonder?)!!!

France looked great, much better than Italy! Just one very close miss!!!
Sport is so unfair!

[Daniela]

[gulzhan]

quote="Daniela"] I think that the referee was correct about the red card, what wasn't correct was Zizou reaction, there's no way I can understand how someone like him with his experience did that during a world cup final and during his last match.

Hitting (especially publicly!) is bad. Holding your temper for your own benefit is good. If the rule is violated, there should be penalty. It's so easier to simplify the things, isn't it?

But life is much more complicated, girls. You know from the history-- there always have been people who violated the laws (very respected at those times!), harmed their interests, were condemned, suffered a lot! and yet-- were able to change the world (and very often the law itself!) and move it further.

Before you (so easily!) reach your verdict-- just imagine-- Materazzi is walking behind Zidane, insults him with racial slur, Zidane holds his temper (as I am sure happened thousands of times in his life!), no one pays attention, time is over, penalties, does not matter if Zidane puts himself together once more and makes his beautiful goal or if he does not and misses, but nevertheless, Italy wins and is a great champion, France looses, the World Cup is over, everyone is happy!

Would that suit you more? Would that be a better lesson? For Zidane, for Materazzi, for the kids from ethnical majorities who know how to hurt cowardly if they need it, for kids from the ethnical minorities who know they must not respond to an insult for their own well-being?

It's not an issue of Zidane's temper. It's an issue of how far we should go in tolerating evil.

I don' think, Zidane was weighing the interest of his own (to leave his football life in a glory!) and his team (more chances to win the Cup) in those split seconds. He just acted. As a man. As any real man should act. But becasue he is a GREAT MAN-- his action became a lesson.

Have you seen how well the France team played for the last ten minutes? That's becasue they wanted to show their support to their captain! Have you heard the sound of the crowd when Materazzi touched the ball, even when it was his turn to hit the penalty? That's because people wanted to show that they condemn dishonor!

Even if there was a single Italian player, a sinlgle Italian boy, who was ashamed of what Materazzi did and was proud of how Zidane responded, the expulsion of Zidane was not a waste! Boys should know-- if they hit someone, they could be hit back, and they could be hurt! Getting a trophy by dirty means might not be worth it! The winners don't always become the heros. That's the Lesson.

I would thank Zidane for what he did. He lost his last match, but he did not lose his honor. Nor did all of us. If he can't openly confront racism, who can? And, I believe, the Law will be on the right side, becasue it has not only a letter, but also a soul.

[Daniela]

So the end justifies the means?
Materazzi should had a yellow card for verbal agression but no one listened, and everyone saw Zizou, the refferee couldn't say "I know your reaction is for a good cause so you won't be expulsed". Football is a game, and as a game it has rules, Materazzi could have hurt him back and he didn't, that's why he played the whole match.
You can hurt a person more by saying something than doing something.
I do agree that Zizou is a great person, I do agree about the reaction as a human being, but I also agree with the red card, it's a rule.
I do think that someone should do something about racism in football in Europe, it's shameful.

... another thing, I'm not a "Jogo Bonito" kinda person AT ALL...
it was a world cup final, all or nothing, but they were playing to win the cup, it wasn't like "brave heart" movie

[Sheva]

Why are people so surprised? Zidane has done this before. At Juventus Zidane was sent off for headbutting a Hamburg player. In France 98 he stamped on a Saudi Arabian. Zidane is a great player but his discipline has never been perfect.

I played football for years, i had all sorts of insults thrown at me and i never once reacted with a headbutt like that.

And why are people here acting as though it was all France in the final they didn't deserve to win the tournament at all.

gulzhan you seem to think that responding to what was said with a headbutt to the chest was the right thing to do? are you kidding me? Besides, it was sheer stupidity of Zidane to act like this. If he had wanted to headbutt Matterazzi, then why not wait till after the game? It was his temper.

you don't even know what Matterazzi said and you're saying that Zidane was right to attack him.

You can try and excuse Zidane's actions, and up to a point i don't disagree, especially if it was a racist attack but in truth Zidane acted like a fool and got the red card he deserved.

[gulzhan]

Sorry, Sheva, I guess it's my temper too! I admit-- I would hit if I could!

This time it was absolutely different for Zidane-- it was his comeback to get France team on the top! Last time for ever! And he nearly did that! Solely by himself! He is a hero! Why do you think the jornalists awarded him with the award of the best player? They wanted to show they did not care what Zidane did in the final (or that he was right! )

Did you see Zidane playing in the semi-final? It was like all the team told him-- do nothing, don't get yourself into trouble before the final, just be on the field! And he played virtually all the match with his hands up in the air! So, Materazzi knew very well what he was doing!

Did you see the final, Sheva? Or read reports in the newspapers. Just a question! Because I can't understand your suggestion for Zidane to wait until the match is over and then him! That would be awful! And much worse from the legal point of view!

And can't help but ask-- do you like Harry Potter, Sheva? Or you prefer Draco Malfoy?

[Daniela]

[Sheva]

[gulzhan]

Just three comments-- I don't say the red card is not correct. I think it's according to the rules. believe that or not, but sometimes violation of the rules is correct!
Second, leagally there is a difference-- the law differenciates the acts that are done within seconds after insult as a normal (often excused) reaction of a human being and the acts that are done considerable time afterwards as an act of revenge (no excuse!). Free legal consulting!
Third, remember what Dambldore said Harry-- that's his strength that he can love (and thus can burst into reaction!) It's just an analogy-- wasn't Harry particular impatient when his family was mocked? There are two sides of every quality-- if Zidane can react this way, he could lead his team up to the final! That's all I am trying to say.

[Daniela]

[Daniela]

I've changed the name of the thread so we could talk all about football because there's a lot of football fans here so...
Let's share our interests about football here

Everyone knows I'm a HUGE Boca Juniors fan, I went to the stadium yesterday and it was awesome Velez was 2-0 and then Boca won 3-2!!! and Fernando Gago scored his first goal cool sunday!